EP 133: Georgina Nelson (RTS #39)
Guest: Georgina Nelson
Topics: Retail technology, business solutions
Chris Ressa 0:07
This is retail retold the story of how that store ended up in your neighborhood. I’m your host, Chris ReSSA. And I invite you to join my conversation with some of the retail industry’s biggest influencers. This podcast is brought to you by DLC management.
Welcome to retail retold everyone. Today I am joined by Georgina Nelson. Georgina is the CEO and founder of trading. I’m excited for her to be here today. Welcome to the show, Georgina.
Georgina Nelson 0:39
Thank you so much for having me, Chris.
Georgina. Why don’t you tell us a little bit about you, who you are and what trading is.
Yeah, I’m a Brit, living and loving living in the US Ave in Atlanta. I came here when we opened our US office. And yeah, on a mission to provide the retail world with better concise customer data and insights.
Would you say to open an office in Atlanta? Does that mean you had an office in London?
Yeah, yeah, we’ve got offices in London, and Sydney, and Sydney.
Wow. So tell us a little bit more about a high level? What is true rating do if you were to give us your one sentence? What is true rating do?
It gives representative and real time customer data to those in retail? Excellent. It sounds incredibly simple. But it really is game changing. Because at the moment, and I’m sure you will have experienced this yourself. You get given a little receipt when you shop somewhere. And they’ll say hey, would you mind filling in this little survey on our sea? And you could like get into a prize draw for $100? And have you ever filled winning? I have the one at Home Depot I fill out all the time I’m I’ve won.
I’ve never won who won these things like the $5,000 that I want to just meet someone who’s won the thing? I don’t know anybody who’s won. For any of these. I want to know who’s won.
Let’s see if any of your listeners can volunteer it.
Yes. If you listen to this one, one of the survey, you know, you filled out a survey and you won the prize for filling out the survey for any retailer or even etailer anything online, anything in a store, please reach out to retail retold. We want to hear from you. Do you know anybody who’s one I’m serious? 13? Do you know anyone who’s actually one?
To be honest, Chris, you’re the first person I’ve met, he’s actually filled one in. Because it doesn’t work for a CX company and isn’t doing research that’s gonna like basically say that, like demographic data tells us they will like women who are retired with too much time on your hand on their hands, but you’ve just totally blown it.
If that’s the case, why haven’t I won? I want to win.
So when you fill it in, do you just tick any box to get to finish it as soon as possible? Or do you take some time?
Now? I’ll be honest, this is not a regular thing, right? When I don’t love filling out surveys for your Friday night treat. Yeah, I don’t love filling out surveys. But if I’m going to do something, I’m going to do it right.
Mm hmm. Well, you are a beacon of hope for the CX industry,
I would say that I’ve really focused on this home depot survey. That’s the one that I’ve filled out.
For the majority of people, you know, like genuinely one of our merchants, yeah, they get naught point 6% response rate from those receipts is usually a tiny percent of customers. If most people want to fill in the prize draw, they just tick straight line speed line wherever they they can quick is to get to the end of the questionnaire. And as I said, it tends to be a certain type of demographic, socio economic status, etc. So like, the fact is, is all these retailers are playing millions and millions and the whole industry is worth billions to try and get customer data on which to base decisions, but the data, the data is rubbish. And you know, rubbish in makes it a bit means rubbish decisions. And it’s yeah, I come from a background I did my first degree in psychology, and then I went into law. But you know, I knew how important it was to get consumer data which you can trust which is representative, which is statistically significant. And only then can you begin to predict future behavior and then After my trip into law, I basically worked for the equivalent and a Consumer Reports which you guys have over here. So I was championing consumer rights, basically, for big data and tech, working opposite the likes of Google and Facebook, when a lot of these privacy and tech awards were coming out. And it just really became apparent to me like what a huge advantage the online tech giants had from such a wealth of consumer data. And my dad was 30 years in retail. So he basically ran the Booksellers Association, so all these independent book shops in the UK. And at the time, when I was working through all this, these data laws, Dad was just coming home, like so weary and depressed from work, because Amazon had just come on the scene in the UK, and was just smashing up, or the book tray, and loads of its members went out of business. And so he was like, we’ve got a fight back with service, we can win on building an emotional connection in store with the customer. But then he’s like, we don’t have any data. And that was the really big discrepancy for me that all these online giants like Amazon, etc, they knew so much about what made that customer convert their basket, what journey would make them spend the most money. And yet, in on bricks and mortar retail, they just simply had the sales data. So basically, I thought, if you can make feeding back super simple, and super quick, wouldn’t you know everyone would do it. And if you could make it in the moment of truth, which is supposed to be 40% more accurate if you ask someone when they’re immediately feeling something than if you ask them after the event. And so I thought of that retail environment, and everybody looks at that payments have been or when they pay. They’re like standing there awkwardly as their goods have been scanned. And they look down to see how much they’re going to be charged. And I thought, why don’t you leverage that. And on
that note, let’s hold it right there. We’re going to finish that at the end. I like that thought, right? Hold that thought right there. I will say this, I’m going to leave you with this. I have filled out a survey on the payment terminal. And the cashier is asking me, right, do you want to fill out a survey on how my service has been used? So she’s watching me, as I’m filling this out? And I like who wants to say, oh, yeah, you were terrible. And hit the terrible button. Right? wants to do that in front of the guests. Anyway, we will
quickly addressing that on with hours. The questions were tight all the time. And so it’s always different questions. So like, yeah, it might not be something about the service. But also just using the keypad is like where you’d enter your PIN. And so the cache can never see that. So it’s all bad at being totally confidential.
Right. Okay, with that, let’s get to know Georgina a little bit better. Okay, I have three questions for you. Are you ready to Cordina? Hit me. Okay. We call this section clear the air? All right, question one. What is one skill you don’t possess? But wish you did?
I’m gonna choose three skills all under the same umbrella, which I think I have the same etiology. So basically, I can’t sing. I can’t speak foreign languages particularly well. And I’m really bad at doing acts and imitations. And I think it’s all related to the size of my ears. So I’ve noticed that I have very small is. And so I basically, yeah, I should have done it as my psychology thesis to see if there was any correlation. Yeah, maybe after two rating I’ll, I’ll investigate it. But yeah. Okay. So yeah. And then that would solve all my linguistical issues.
That’s the best answer I’ve ever heard on this show. So thank you for sharing that. Question to what is one thing most people agree with, but you do not
the time it takes to get places?
Do you think it takes longer, slower, shorter?
I always think it will take, say the quickest time possible. And so yeah, I’m one of those people who will be late. It’s five minutes away. What else? Is he joking? Do you know Atlanta traffic is 30 minutes. And I’d be like this fine. Fine. And so. Yeah, so I’m generally late for everything. But I actually read an interesting article that most entrepreneurs are delusionally optimistic. And so I draw the line. And I’m just optimistic about how long it takes me to get places why I’m always
yes, I love that. delusionally optimistic. That’s a great little phrase there. So thank you for that. Yeah, that’s a good one. Last one. When is the last time you did something for the first time?
It’s so cool yesterday.
Is your first time playing softball?
Yeah, like, I feel it’s like a an Americana badge. We don’t have it in England. So yeah, my daughter has just bought, just joined the softball team. So yeah, I haven’t managed to hit the ball yet. But take it out with Ernest
Becker, your daughter, son,
she’s in the third.
She’s in softball.
Yeah. So I was just playing with her.
She like it. Yeah. She
said, Yeah, well, we’re all in. She’s made me Pinky promise that my dad always just said to my brothers growing up, always in sport, he’d just stand on the sideline, and the whole time, he’d be like, watch the bloody bore. First of all, I’ve had to Pinky promise that I’m not going to be one of those. Those mums decide.
My father was one of those parents. So I know that parent father was the parent that everybody in the stands set away from. I know I know that all too well. There’s not a referee on the planet that that like to my father showed up to a game so. Okay, well, softball, what do you think of softball? Should should England start to adopt softball and get this in high schools and youth programs across the country?
Yeah, one thing I’m not sure about is the time it takes for game. I’m a bit on the fence. They’re having gone to watch a baseball. It’s softball quicker than baseball because they went to watch a baseball game and yeah. Yeah, I did.
Okay, so yes, you sports. They shorten up. So in baseball, it’s nine innings. Typically. I don’t know about softball in Atlanta, but typically, youth sports, they’re going to make it shorter innings so that the game speeds up. Yeah, man. I imagine you’re looking a softball game. I imagine it’s a two hour game.
Yeah, football is that soccer, as you call it over here is 90 minutes. And so I think that’s a that’s definitely gone favor with a lot of
Yeah, but what I would say it’s not 90 minutes, because there’s like a half time and there’s in there. And that in itself. The whole time. Right. I’m talking about the two hour softball bed being from like, start to a total time. Okay, show up at eight you leave at 10?
Yeah. All right.
So it could be quicker. It could be quicker from region to region, depending on how they want to adopt what style they want to adopt the game. So
I’m up for it. There you go.
Did you throw the ball? Were you pitching to your daughter? Yeah. She hitting well?
Yeah. All right. Yeah, we’re rolling. All right.
Okay, I want to move to talk about trading. And talk about the business today. What are you all up to talk about specifically, you left us on a cliffhanger with the POS system. And I guess let’s start there. What does trading do? More specifically than it helps get real customer data.
So by leveraging that moment, when you pay, whether you’re like online in store, we just asked one simple question, but the question is very tight. So if you think about like a really long survey, which you might get home depot, and they get a tiny percent of customers feedback, we ask all those questions will fit in rotation. So doing the math, you get really quick, statistically significant data because like 80% of customers feedback in store. And with each rating, it’s like because we integrate with payment we have with how much people spent what’s in the basket, all anonymous aggregated data trends, which we provide back to the retailer so they can begin to see down at a store level, what’s going on? Is their store, tidy up people being greeted as they come in as a new store layout going down? Well, is it that they are making that ROI back? So that’s it? Yeah, that kind of stuff, which we do. And then also online as well. We get like 50% of people feeding back online and, and writing qualitative comments, etc.
Okay, let’s dig into this. I find the concept of ratings and reviews, just fascinating. Let’s go I have a buddy that I would never expected that is been reviewing on Yelp for decades. I had no idea so ever since Yelp, I have no idea who did this. But anyway, so I’m fascinated by ratings and reviews. Let’s go back to your product. Can service a true rating? You keep using this one question. So I go up to the POS, I get there. I pay by whatever method I’m paying Apple Pay this that the other thing, how your survey is like, doesn’t just pop up it like, it’s like part of the transaction.
Okay, yeah, it comes out on a rainbow, like led by a unicorn jumps over the terminal. And yeah, it’s just it’s not the way you literally just before you pay, it will be on that terminal. So we integrate with all the likes of Verifone, Ingenico, FNS, all those big payments companies who are in Atlanta along one really boring road. That’s why we’re here, because we work with all of them. And then they basically build the ability to ask a question on the on the payment terminal. And so with each rating, you rate we donate to children’s charities. So we’re working with families first here in Atlanta, that that yeah, that also brings that engagement. And each rating also feeds that retailers, SEO, Google profile. So if you think about, you know, star ratings in Google, when you search for a store, we stream all our online and in store ratings, so your mate who feeds back on Yelp, on average, a store on Yelp, like might have like, eight reviews, like over five years. So one will be from your mate. And then like to hear from Kevin’s mum, who really wants Kevin to get a promotion and she’s like, Kevin, such a sweetheart. And then like, and then you’ll have like one from someone wanting a free voucher and another one firm like someone who’s slipped on some bleach, and there’s like absolutely slating it, and you go on as a consumer and you’re like, What am I supposed to do with these reviews, I have no idea whether to go to this venue or not. I don’t know whether to trust it for five years. Whereas with us, because 80% of customers are feeding back on those key questions, which are really important. So you can actually see, wow, like in the last two weeks, 100,000 people have said, this place is phenomenal for service or product range, or wherever. And you can then make your decision with confidence. So it’s like that to that two pronged approach with the ratings. The first is the retail analytics for the retailer. And then the second is also publishing it so consumers can benefit and building a trust dia platform to the likes of Yelp.
I think I get that part of it. Now. The next piece, I go up to the POS, I’m about to buy my product. Are you asking me one question? Or a series of questions throughout the transaction?
only have a one. It’s the power of one. Do you know about the power of crowds? Sure, if you ask enough people, that’s it. So yeah,
explain it to the audience. Explain to the audience, I think it’s helpful.
So the power of crowds is like a philosophy, I think they used to think it like grow from medieval times didn’t it when they were like trying to guess the weight of a bull or something. And they actually found the best way would to was to ask everyone in the village, and then simply do a average calculation, add, subtract by those who had voted. And you’d get you get bang on to the weight of the bull versus and so it’s all about the wider you can make that sample, the closer you get to the actual source of the source of truth. So it’s the power of crowds really plays into the representation element, rather than you asked just a few people, which is what today’s CX surveys do, you don’t get close to that essence of truth. So we were really leveraging the power of clouds with just one question, but it’s different request questions. So the person behind you could get to like the music in here. The next person could get to define what you’re looking for, you know, which is all like, really, really key data which retailers need in terms of all these challenges, which are hitting them at the moment as we come out of COVID how consumers are evolving? How are people changing? And they can ask that, you know, putting any question they want immediately and pull the vast majority of their customer base.
And you stream that data to the Google reviews.
Yeah to Google, say Google search there. Yeah, it will be picked up on the knowledge well.
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Okay, I think I get it now. If I’m a consumer and I want to I wanted to see this Are you are you selling your product to the retailers? Is that your customers or the payment services
mad the payments companies we just do a revenue share with what the merchant pays us. So everybody’s a winner. So the the retailers
retailers? Yeah. So what stores can I go in and find trading
a mate? Amazing customers like JD finish line? So canadapost longos, which is part of like the Sobeys Empire brand. And then like in other and then I can’t really say others which are have signed with US bank online. Yeah. But and then like we live with brands like Naik, their major franchisee champion Tom’s New Balance. Look, yeah. Calvin Klein, Tommy Hilfiger? Yeah.
Excellent. So I go in the stores. When I go to the POS, I’m Georgina’s is going to pop up and ask me a question on on the POS system.
And the payments are not yet. Okay. You don’t have to answer you can ignore. But think about children’s charity, and the fact that you could go on to, you could go on and find trusted ratings from others on the website. So it’s really building that community that, you know, how can we all work together to get better trusted data out there to guide our choices? So yeah, as I said, 80% feedback?
How many people have to answer a question for it to be trusted feedback?
So it depends on? Obviously, everyone’s opinion is valid, but it depends on how quickly you want the insight. So like, you could, yeah, we genuinely depends whether it’s, you want to ask it over the course of a week or two weeks. And or if you want to get really quick representative data within just a short amount of time. And then we can just make sure that question appears much more frequently. So I’d say like, yeah, whether you’re wanting to see a certain time window, so we’ve got a whole data science team, he’ll basically work through how many transactions you have, what are the goals? What kind of questions do you want to understand? And then how quickly you can get that speed to insight.
Okay, that’s helpful. But is there like a range? Where you say, in this is my lack of understanding of statistics, but is there a range that says, Oh, I don’t know, we need 80% of the people that respond to this to actually have trusted data? Is there something that works?
Yeah, we have like a formula where like, you can look at a heat map where you can see like, literally hour by hour, like how you’re doing so you can say like, Okay, we know, alright, that the one which we did with like, for example, was like, major franchisee was they found out that if you ask someone their name, as they’re buying a pair of trainers, they spend 30% more. And so working with us, they basically said, Okay, every single store has to have 66% of customers answering yes to that question for that store to get their bonus. And once they implemented that, they immediately saw a rise in revenue by over 5%. And so they’re able to really quickly see all right, we can see those stores aren’t asking people their name, we need to get service strategy, training, etc, on there. And so we’ll basically they’ll be able to see the heat map of across the hours of the day and know which shift times and who’s working on the shifts where they need further training. And so we have an algorithm to ensure that there are certain amount of people. That’s a terrific
example, Georgina. I want to unpack that example a little bit. Let’s go. What was the question exactly? That asked on the payment terminal that actually led to that insight. Because if you asked me if the question was, and I know this wasn’t the question, but if the question was, Chris, if the cashier in front of you ash greeted you with your name, would you buy more I would like to know. So what was the question that actually led to that incident?
What were you asked your name today? Yes or no? So then, as I say, then really quickly, we can see everyone who’s saying yes, on average spent this much everyone who says no spends this much. And so we can see that the other why that service strategy is 30%. More people spend 50% more when they’re asked their name. So then you can simply say, right, we want that question in rotation all the time, because it’s going to become a key KPI in our install service standards.
What a great stat, do you think that is something you can apply to most retailers? I’m sure directionally, you can maybe it’s not 30% of all retailers, but I bet directionally Yeah, I think people spend more if you ask their name,
I think it’s a you know, it’s a proxy to the consultative sale, which is really important in that high end FRL environment. And when people, you know, they want to build that emotional connection with someone, and especially like, who isn’t going to win on price, for example, in their stores, because they can always be discounted by their resellers down the, you know, down the mall. And so it’s really key for them to have that upper hand in that emotional selling. But for example, in a, in a big discount shop, it’s so five below, I didn’t mention five below one of our customers. So we did, and it’s on their website, they were looking at, as you might know, they’ve widen their range to include technical products, which are often above the five $5 Mark. And they are looking to sample that out. And we could see when people had these items in their basket like tech items, that actually service levels went down. And that’s because they’ve extended out their product range, but they hadn’t invested in having people who actually permanently or around that area in the store. Because people have higher expectations, they have more questions, they want to ask more about the product range when they buy tech, versus when they might just be picking up some sweets are a cocoa, whatever. And so we were able to really quickly see actually, we can see across all your customers, the people who are buying these products, we need to invest more in stuff at that particular point. So for, for each retailer, they’re going to need different service strategies, they’re going to lead to higher ATBS and hire repeat visits. And it’s just as working out with retailers what that might be for them.
Excellent. I love this. This is really interesting. Can you give us one more interesting insight that you’ve learned about retail from putting on the surveys at the payment terminal? Something like the one you just said, which was people spend more if you ask their name, I’ll call it that. But what else have you learned?
I think what’s been really interesting is the work which we’ve done during COVID. And coming out of COVID, where we have the right to waiting to ask every one in 100 questions. And so it doesn’t have to be related to that particular retailer. But we thought about retail trends, which are really impacting the whole of retail across our markets and what our retailers really desperate to understand. And so we’ve been if you follow me or Truvativ on LinkedIn, you’ll be able to see that we’re releasing these studies where within just a few weeks, we can pull, you know, 200,000 us consumers on whether they’re going to be using Opus in the future, will they continue to do their grocery shopping online coming out of COVID? Do they still have safety concerns? How has their loyalty changed in relation to the brands they’re buying, for instance, COVID, were just naturally launching this emotional loyalty report where it’s really interesting to see how loyalty is becoming very much, especially with COVID really closely tied to affiliation with the brand values of the retailer. And then on the flip side, there’s obviously the big convenience play with online, I’m finding it really interesting to understand that we’ve seen a lot of consumers are flirting with a whole move after brands, maybe that’s due to like product choice, etc. Being stunted during COVID or certain their usual retailers didn’t offer the types of delivery which they needed. And so they they flirted elsewhere. And so the sampling has gotten wider, but you can really see that actually that they put a drive and emotional drive to loyalty for a few key brands is really, really strong. And so that kind of insight is we’re seeing the changing consumer landscape and how it’s impacting retail. And I also think, I think it’s just interesting that we you know, during COVID There was all this, you know, all these headlines saying, you know, store stores are dead. Everything’s going online. It’s the it’s the retail apocalypse, it’s the death of death, just as we know it, and we were asking all these consumers, and we’re like, this isn’t a date and data, we’re saying like hundreds of 1000s of consumers are telling us they can’t wait to get back into stores. They don’t plan, you know, only a small percentage actually was saying that they, their online behavior would be permanent. And, and so, and then you look at the samples from these other journalists, and it was like, there was something like 200 people. And so I think, I think that’s yeah, I think that’s been really interesting. And I’m, we’re always open to Chris, if you were to lay awake at night and have any questions, which you were desperate for us to fit through our panel polling. Let me know.
Oh, I’ve got it. I got some questions that I would love for you to ask. Yeah,
bring it on. Yeah, each week, we, yeah, we’re putting more more in the mix. So maybe we can do a sequel. And, and I can, I can cover that data guys. And they can paint the picture of what they’re seeing. And you can get your questions and
excellent. What did the verdict end up on bogus, bogus a win?
Only 5% said that they would continue with it. Only 5% Out of how many? Well, that was 200,000 people took part in that survey. Whether that, you know, I think that’s a that’s still an all group or business case. 5% of people still, you know, looking to use it as an argument to keep it going. But I don’t think the swing was nearly as big as some of the attention grabbing headlines, were saying I was going to be doing COVID.
I think that consumers may not control the outcome on that one. Retailers are going to be forced to encourage consumers to do both this because it’s a lot more profitable than shipping it to your home. So yeah. With that. I want to bring us to the last part of the show, which is retail wisdom. I’ve got three questions for you. Are you ready? Yes. Okay. What extinct retailer Do you wish would come back from the dead? Do you know a green grocer is a green grace or no green grocer? roaster.
Yes, sir. It’s like, what we had is what we had growing up. We had greengrocers, like, it was like the sort of the flag of the UK High Street, whereby, you know, little, it’s a bit like the sort of the farmers market which you get in the US, but only on certain weekends and in a car park somewhere. I miss and as a vegetarian, only in the last couple of years, I I really miss that ability to just walk to a fresh fruit and veg store. And I’d really like that.
Okay. I’m sure you could find some stuff in Atlanta, there’s farmers markets and stuff.
The thing is, I just go into Target and all I want to buy is like a bag of apples and I come out having spent $300 on a load of load of other stuff I don’t need so
I’m with you there. Okay, question two. What is the last item over $20? You purchased in the store?
I’ve just bought a Chinese money plant. Interesting, Matt. Yeah, I’m reading the book, this book around Norwegian Forest philosophy and how having houseplants basically is the cure for all ailments. Stress, immune fatigue.
This is a world I am. I know. I know absolutely nothing about so
$20 Invest in a Chinese money plant. And apparently if you stick a stick a dime in it, it will bring you bring you fortune as well. I haven’t actually done that. I probably should.
Where do you where do you get this plan? Where does it Where do you buy it?
I was just having an ice cream at Ben and Jerry’s. And there was no there was a shop next door. Yeah, like I’ve always say like, yeah, my my flats
for my desk. So
each one? Yeah, that’s it. Let me know how it goes.
Okay. All right. I’ll
take a cup.
Speaking of target, last question, Georgina. If you and I were shopping at Target and I lost you would I would I find you
I asked my daughter this because I thought it’d be an interior design bit but as totally I’d be in sort of vitamins and supplements where I just spend ages with everything back then. Okay, finding out what the latest the latest mushroom mix or cognitive gummies are going to be which are going to mean that I can survive on like six hours. See Eat For how many days in a row and still be on top of my game, which I’m sure thing which many entrepreneurs are on the same quest to find
vitamin supplements. I love it. Okay, yeah. Well Gina, this was great. Thank you so much for joining me. Thank you so much for the rescheduling. I really appreciate it. You’ve been a trooper, I look forward to connecting with you more and I am going to send you some questions for your your signings. And so where can people find you?
LinkedIn. Georgina Nelson. Georgina, thanks so much. Cheers. Cheers. Take care. Bye bye
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